I would love to hear from you guys - how do you like the challenge?

Working on more edits and have gotten a few done in the last week. I just did some spell checking too (sorry for my awful spelling!). Please check things over and if you see any blaring errors, let me know :)

Mikitta 18:17, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

Fishing Edit

First of all, I love these rules! They make way more sense than the TS2 adaption available previously, which left loads of things open to abuse and had one "restriction" that didn't actually restrict anything. These are really well-thought-out. :)

When I first started this challenge, though, I rolled a 3 for a job for the founder and realised that fishing is one of the skills a level 10 scientist needs, but my sim wasn't allowed to learn fishing. I thought about using The Amazing Naturalist rule that you can take one fishing class and one fishing class only and then have to rely on the TV to do the rest, but he can't even buy a TV until the Science restriction is lifted.

You need fishing to be able to lift Science, and you need Science lifted in order to learn fishing through the TV. Could this be looked at again? 08:35, July 16, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Fishing. Edit

The rules have been tested by Mikitta who wrote them. By using "Work Hard" option it is still possible to lift Science without needing any fishing skill at all. Therefore the rules will stand as she has written them. Hope this helps....

Anghara13 09:24, July 16, 2011 (UTC)

Play-testing isn't foolproof - what works for one person won't work for another! The Work Hard option is a possibility, but if Science doesn't have any prerequisites it should be possible to lift it right at the start, when Sims are hungry, stinky, tired and generally unhappy. I like to lift Science as early as possible so Sims can learn from watching TV (plus get cars under Mikitta's rules) and these rules make it next to impossible to do at the start of an apocalypse simply because their mood is so foul. I'd still like an alternative to be considered - e.g. only the Sim attempting to lift this restriction can go fishing, like with the Amazing Naturalist.
Hope that helps explain my question a bit more. 12:45, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

Aging Edit

Question: How do you set the aging as indicated? None of the options have young adults and adults stay their age for 25 days. The closest is 21 days in the Normal setting. But if it takes an average of 39 days to get to level 10 in a career, that leaves little wiggle room before senility sets in, particularly for spouses, who often have lived part of their adult lives before moving in. Also, at Normal aging, babies and toddlers will stay babies and toddlers too long. Is there a way to customize aging?

Re: Aging Edit

You can adjust the duration of each age group by going into Settings -> Game Options, and then dragging the sliders for each age group individually. 18:19, August 8, 2011 (UTC) Nightrowan

RE: Fishing and Aging66.82.9.59 13:02, August 24, 2011 (UTC) Edit


Clearing Science is hard. It's not supposed to be easy. I've tested it MULTIPLE times with the current rules, with sims having different traits, and it IS possible to clear science without any fishing skill at all - as LONG as you take advantage of the opportunity to get ALL the gardening books. If you have your gardening maxed and your other skills for Science maxed, Fishing really dosn't slow you down THAT much. In fact, Science is easier to clear than Education by far, and Education dosn't require anything that is restricted.

Now, all that said - I have personally found that making sure my founder has the traits of Slob and Inappropriate make the start of the challenge SO much easier - because they can bathe in the sink and they can slurp off dirty dishes and eat spoiled food so they are happier sims. I won't dictate what traits you HAVE to have for your founder - but those two in particular make it much easier. If you do Slob, Inappropriate, Charismatic, Friendly and Workaholic - it almost makes the founder part of the challenge too easy :P


Prior to being able to customize the age settings, we had the challenge on Normal, because Long was TOO long. We DID have some work arounds for that - namely "free" days to be used where you needed them to get you over a hump. But with customized aging that we all have now, things are more tidy. Here is how you are to set your ages.

  • Baby - 2 day
  • Toddler - 4 days
  • Child - 6 days
  • Teen - 14 days
  • Young Adult - 25 days
  • Adult - 25 days
  • Elder - 14 days.

This gives you a total of 90 days - same as aging on Normal - but it reduces the annoyance of babies, toddlers and Elders, putting those days where you need them most - a total of 50 days to clear your initial careers before Comforting Children is lifted. Some might complain that they can't teach their toddler all the skills - well, that's the trade off. I've always gotten my toddlers trained entirely by day 3, so they sat around and did nothing for 4 days. Now it's just 1 day they don't do anything.


I am thinking of amending the ages lengths since EA fixed the mood bug. My proposes change is to take 2 days from Young Adult and 2 days from Adult, leaving both of those stages at 23 days, and putting the time into Child - so that the Child stage will be 10 days. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Mikitta 09:49, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Some upcoming changesEdit

I'm just giving a general heads up about some things with the latest expansion and store content.

  • Hidden Springs
    • You may not use the Wishing Well AT ALL. Just like you can't use the stop aging potion, ambrosia or life fruit now.
  • Gothique Library set
    • No using the spell book. Not that it really works or DOES anything, but no using it just the same.
  • Pets Expansion
    • Pets are under all the same restrictions as child and teen sims are
      • No going off the lot for any pet until Military and Law Enforcement Dynamic DNA Profiler are cleared
      • Feeding a pet of any kind takes up the families 1 meal a day until Culinary is cleared
      • Unless a pet can be bathed in the sink, they have to be stinky
      • No training pets until Athletic is cleared.
      • No competitions till the Film careers have been cleared
      • You must have a high relationship with any stray before you can let it in the house
      • No fences or locking gates till Law Enforcement Super Spy and Politics are cleared
    • No collecting pets from the wild (birds, reptiles, rodents) except for the sim who is attempting to clear DaVinci.
    • No horses until AT LEAST Politics are cleared - you won't have room for their stalls
    • No buying animals from the pet store or from buy mode.
    • You founder MAY start with a pet, but feeding them DOES take the family's one meal. Your founder will have to share their dirty plate with their pet
    • Since there are no pet careers, there won't be any additional restriction categories devised for this expansion. Everything will go under existing categories.
    • Using a pet to collect stuff for you ...
      • Pets may not go collect other critters, gems, seeds, etc until you have a sim in DaVinci. Then the pet may act as your helper.

{C}Until we get the expansion and can play around with it, these are the basics for the expansion. If anyone can think of anything else - let me know :)


Can the spouse only lift a restriction if they come into the house already reaching the top of their career?

"Can the spouse only lift a restriction if they come into the house already reaching the top of their career? "

RE: SpousesEdit

Your spouse may lift a restriction, starting when they move in. If they are already at the top of thier career when they are married in, they have lifted it as soon as the next generation is born. If they have not reached the top of their career, they can be working toward it as soon as they are married in. BUT lifting of the career does not occure until the next generation is born.'

God Bless,


Teen's School (generation) Edit

So i been having problems doing stuff without my teens going to school because she kept getting tortured with the groundend moodlet because of her marks are the lowest. Are we able to change alittle bit of the teen rules?

RE:Teens and missing school before education is clearedEdit

{C}It happens, usually for several generations. Your teen sims cannot go to school because education has not been cleared and then they get in deep kimchee with the folks. I know this gives them a bad moodlet, and it lowers their relationship with the parental units, but it's part of the game. AND this period only lasts for 14 days. Usually, the truant teen will only get a scolding and then have to do some chores - so save those messy beds and dirty toilets for them. If worse comes to worst, they will have to stand in the corner for an hour. But I have yet to see one of my teen sims have a mood tanked so badly by these punishments that they were unable to do any skill building - which is what they SHOULD be doing when they can't go to school.

The challenge is all about facing hardships, and that includes totally unreasonable parents not realizing you are playing them in an apocalypse and the schools don't exist for teens :p

Mikitta 09:41, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Changes upcoming for Show TimeEdit

I am as yet uncertain there will be any significant changes to exisiting restrictions for the Show Time expansion. I was able to integrate pets fairly well into the DaVinci restrictions, but I'm not going to hold my breath that all the fuss and bother with performances and other sims visiting your neighborhood and you being able to export your sim to other simmers games is going to be easily dealt with.

For the time being, until such time as we (the community of TS3AC players) have had a chance to play the new expansion and see what it brings to the table, do not expect any anouncements until April, or possibly May. Just what little I've seen thus far indicates that everything is going to be restricted anyway.

I don't really want to add more restriction categories, but if there are enough expansion specific interactions added (like there were with generations), I'll add a category that ONLY restricts Show Time interactions and does NOT have any corollary for those who don't own the expansion. Hopefully, I won't have to - as that can make those who own the expansion feel like they are being punished more than those who don't LOL.

Mikitta 09:55, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

{C}I've been playing around w/ Showtime this week. Currently, I'm testing ONE sim doing all three careers to see if it's possible to do in one standard lifetime. Her attributes are maxed for performance. The next test through, I'll do a sim who's attributes are randomized.

I will DEFFINITELY say that you can't simport before Super Spy is cleared. Also, stage dressing - you have to use the default backdrops unless you have Architect cleared.

I am enjoying this expansion so far, and I am enjoying the social aspects - chatting w/ friends while I play. That is not going to be restricted at all. I hope that we Apocalypse players can confer and comisserate real time now :P

I hadn't played my challenge in a while, so I forgot where my Ice Station sims were at. I'll have to restart. But there seems to be population issues in that world (not enough housing to suit me) so i'll start a new challenge in the No Tombs version of Rattlesnake Ridge. That will also allow me to realy stress test the current Showtime restrictions I've put up - the tentative ones.

Anyway - if you guys have any feedback about things, please let me know. Right now, I have things set so people can't change the main rules page. Somehow or other the whole page got turned orange and it took me a while to fix it. I dont' know it it was ME that did that or if the Wikia was hacked somewhere along the line, or if it was just a glitch. But I'm going to keep it to admin only. If you want to help manage the pages, just let me know. Send me a message and I'll give you admin privileges (at least I'll try - I think I can set folks as admin for the site).

Thanks for all your patience and your help and support for the challenge :)

God Bless,


Any time I buy a 64x64 plot, I end up with $1800 left over. Am I meant to familyfunds my cash up to where it's supposed to be? 20:45, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

Firstly, I have the same issue as above ($1800 left over after a 64x64 plot); I have assumed I just familyfunds up to what you say in the introduction.

My main issue though are the Buy Mode/Build Mode restrictions:

a) Both the initial introduction and the Architect restriction say you can't use more than 2 of each build mode category per day. Does this mean that even if you lift the Architect restriction you still can't use more than 2, or does the Architect restriction lifting override the Middle of Nowhere restriction?

b) The introduction also restricts you to 1 Buy Mode item per day. Is this ever lifted? None of the restrictions explicitly mention it, but if the answer to a) is that Architecture removes the 2 build mode restriction, then presumably there should be a way to restore the economy such that you can buy more than 1 item? (Business? Politics?)

c) Part of the reason for the questions is that the Viper Valley Bonus requires you to purchase and upgrade community lots. (Incidentally, it says there that Business must be lifted to start this; in fact you need to lift Politics as well). The general thrust of the Apocalypse Challenge (both in Sims 2 and here) is that restrictions that apply on the home lot also apply on community lots (and indeed, even in other countries here, which is something that Pinstar's original Sims 2 variant didn't have). That would imply that the 2 build mode restriction and 1 buy mode restriction were universal - that I can only buy 2 build mode items per category over all my lots, and 1 buy mode item over all my lots. Since the Viper Valley community lots (eg the Consignment Store) are far below even the minimum value (by about $20k, if I recall correctly), even with Architecture lifted (so that you can at least use expensive build mode and buy mode items) it will take ages to be able to build up the necessary lot value. So I guess I'm asking - if we can't ever lift the Buy mode restriction, then can we at least ignore it for owned community lots?

I am thoroughly enjoying this challenge, although I do have a couple of minor complaints. There is discussion, for example, about what career is best to lift first. In fact this discussion is largely worthless, because you really don't have much of a choice. The first career is by random roll, and until you happen to manage to score Criminal-Master Thief (which allows you to quit and take other jobs) and ideally Military (which allows you to walk there) you are more or less at the whim of the dice. With something like the Apocalypse Challenge there are so many things you aren't allowed to do it is nice to at least feel some control over your destiny by planning what you're going to lift, and the current rules make it extremely difficult to plan at the start, which is where you desperately need to. The best you can do is go for a series of "generally useful" traits for your founder which has the (presumably) unanticipated side effect of making founders all look pretty much the same. I think it would be reasonable to allow the founder to choose his career. This allows different players to experiment with different starting strategies.



Ok, to answer some questions ...

$1800 left over after a 64x64 plot - yes, use Familyfunds to increase your money to the level required unless you really want to go hardcore with your game.

Middle of No Where and Build/Buy restrictions - This is lifted by business. Architect lifts being able to buy ANYthing in build buy regaurdless of cost.

The FAQ and the Sims 3 challenge - The FAQ actually came directly from Pinstar's Sims 2 Apocalypse Challenge. I haven't gotten around to updating it with ALL the information that has been discussed over the last 2 years with the Sims 3 Apocalypse Challenge.

Character building and planning - Part of balancing the challenge for Sims 3 was deciding to make initial careers a matter of random chance only because the open neighborhood design makes Military such a powerful career to unlock. In order to preserve the nature of the challenge and keep it, well, challenging, I decided that making career selection random until you have unlocked Master Thief was the best way to do this. You can still luck out and get Military, Medical, Culinary or Science in that founding generation and thus make the rest of the challenge a virtual cake walk (those four categories are very powerful). It's not impossible to complete the challenge if you don't, however. It's just .... a challenge :P

Choosing Character Traits - There are only two traits that significantly affect your founder's chances of survival and progression. Those are Slob and Inappropriate. Slob allows your founder to slurp off dirty dishes and inappropriate allows them to bathe in the sink. There are three other trait slots that you can fill up as you desire. In fact, you don't HAVE to play an inappropriate slob if you want more of a challenge :) Believe me, it's MUCH harder to progress if you are stinky and hungry! Also, remember that ONLY your founder gets a custom set of traits chosen by you. Every single other sim born into the family has their traits chosen at random, and you are not allowed to use cheats to change married in spouse traits.

I hope I answered your questions and concerns well. If not - please don't hesitate to refine on things :)

Mikitta 03:38, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Oh -- sorry ... Architect lifts the restriction on the QUALITY of items you can get in build buy - so you aren't restricted on just getting the cheapest of an item. Business let's you buy as much as you want (lifts middle of nowhere).

Mikitta 04:07, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Hi Mikitta

You have indeed mostly answered my questions. Just one refinement:

- Assume we have lifted Business and Politics so we can buy community lots, but we have not lifted Architecture. Can I buy, for example, 2 wallpapers for my house, 2 more for community lot 1, 2 more for community lot 2, and so on all in the same Sim day, or must it be 2 total? (If Business is unlocked, according to your clarification there is no longer any problem with Buy mode objects regardless of lot, though of course Architecture still restricts them to $500 or less).

I don't really consider being stinky to be much more than a nuisance, but that's obviously a result of differing opinions on which traits are good. My founder picks, for reference, were Ambitious, Workaholic, Friendly, Genius, and Athletic. The first 3 are generally good for all careers. The last 2 were chosen upon seeing that the random career you can start with includes Military, Law Enforcement, and Athletic (all of which benefit from Athletics), and Medical and Science (both of which can benefit from Logic). As it turned out I got Medical first up, which I guess sort of vindicates my choice to leave off the Slob and Inappropriate traits. :)

OK, I understand your position on starting career. Can I ask a further couple of clarifications then? I understand the founder has to roll. Fair enough.

The next generation are limited to the first job available in the newspaper or, if Science is lifted, the computer. So, some more questions:

1. If you've lifted Science, can they check the newspaper and the computer, and pick between them? Or are they stuck with whichever they pick first? (Or are they even different? I confess I haven't checked; they used to be different in Sims 2, I remember that).

2. Let's say the first job available in the newspaper is one that you don't want. Are you required to take it regardless, or can you just wait until tomorrow and look again? (I realise you're not allowed to take the 2nd or 3rd option, but must you take the first?)

3. So, let's say the Founder lifted Medical. The heir grabs the newspaper and sees Medical as the first option - he is then allowed to look for the 2nd option, as Medical is already lifted. Now, a slightly different scenario. The founder has lifted Medical and (therefore) Hopelessness. The spouse moves in. Assume for the moment that the founder is male, so the spouse is female. First thing the spouse does is get pregnant; once the heir is born, she gets a job in, say, the Science career. In the interim the heir becomes an adult while the spouse has not yet completed Science. The heir picks up the newspaper and Science is the first option. Must he take this job, even though there is a Sim already about to clear it? Can he take the 2nd option? Can he wait for tomorrow's paper?

Because my founder did indeed lift Medical I had both him and his spouse buy Fertility Treatment; we rapidly filled the house with babies, and I was extremely fortunate not to have this come up; it would be good to know what has to happen in this case (as if you must take the career even if there is already another Sim working on lifting it, it suggests that having lots of children is risky).

Gazza666 04:20, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Will there be changes to the rules in connection with the new add-on?

GAZZ --->

1.) Questions about how many lots can be upgraded at a time -

You can't purchase community lots until several categories are cleared - business and politics just off the top of my head. And you can't purchase foreign lots until those same restrictions have been lifted. Once business is cleared, you are not restricted on how many build/buy items you may purchase in a day's time.

2.) Career Clarifications -

  • For all subsequent household sims who get a job, they have to do the news paper, computer or random method (depending on lifted restrictions) until Life of Crime - Master Thief is cleared. If your heir picks up the paper and the first job has already been cleared, he can choose the next one in line. If someone is currently working on that next job, he can take the third career.
  • If you have cleared science, you may check the computer, but until LoC-MT is cleared, you are limited to the first available job that has not been cleared yet.
  • If Military has been cleared you may randomly roll for the career for that sim, ignoring any results for careers that have already been cleared.
  • You must choose ONE of the above depending on what restrictions you have lifted, because until LoC-MT is cleared, you must take the FIRST open job you can find by what ever means. Now, the paper will always only show 3 jobs. The computer will show all jobs. Of course the random method shows all jobs.
  • You are REQUIRED to take the first available job that has not been cleared yet and is not in the process of being cleared by another sim - weather you wanted it or not.
  • If the required restrictions have been cleared, you can opt to have your sim clear DaVinci or naturalist and you do NOT have to roll randomly for those.

3.) Will there be changes to the rules in connection with the new add-on?

  • Yes there will be. In fact, part of those updates have been slotted in already, under the Ghost Hunter category. It will now be called Paranormal Profiteer and you will get to choose weather you want to clear the restriction using the Ambitions profession, the Supernatural career or the alternate Paranormal Sojournor path. The benefit to the Supernatural career path is that you will not need to have prerequisites cleared since it is a rabbit hole job.
  • There will also be a NEW category to clear for those who own the expansion. I haven't decided what to call it yet, but it will deal strictly with the new races, interactions, lifetime achievements, and skills of this expansion. Until I have that written up, consider marriage to any occult as off limits. Ghosts are still under Paranormal Profiteer as far as interactions. Vampire restrictions remain the same. Consider Wearwolves to be under the same demesne as vampires, and witches must naturally arise in the family without marrying them in. Fairies may not be married in either. You can have any of the above as friends, however :) There will be very specific rules regaurding these occult, but there will be some cool things too :D As soon as I've played thorugh both career paths and gotten a better feel for the expansion and what is and is not going on, I'll write that up. Once it goes in, it is doctrine :D
  • If you are not sure who is who - vampires have a red border around them in the friends window, witches have a yellow border, fairies have a green border and wearwolves have another border color I can't recall at the moment.
  • For the time being, just until I've got the new category hammered out, you may NOT make an occult founder. However, I plan on figuring out how to incorporate that so you can do a fairy legacy or a were wolf legacy or what not. Perhaps something like if you are a particular occult you may not marry in anyone who is not also of that occult. So if your founder is a fairy, they can only marry in another fairy. If your founder is a werewolf, you have to turn your intended spouse into one before you are allowed to marry them in, etc.
  • Zombies are a HUGE feature for our challenge. You will have to set your game to ALWAYS be on the full moon until Naturalist is cleared. Something to do with lenticular refraction angles and dust partical luminosity. This will result in a very high abundance of zombies who will zerg your house from sun down to sun up. You will need to be indoors by sun down and any visitors will have to stay the night for their own safety - though NPC's will do what NPC's will do.
  • This WILL significantly change dynamics, because previously we had allowed you to be outside your own house after dark. No longer! If it is between the hours of sun down and sun up - you may not chance being outside.
    • NOW - there will be recourse to cure those zombies, so if you have a way to make that cure or protect yourself, there will be included in the rules update something about that. Like if you are able to craft the bee sting elixir, or you are a wearwolf or witch, or you have a high level of martial arts ... and you can actually fight the things - then you might be able to take your sim outside during infestation.
    • Zombies can NOT be befriended or married in or other wise interacted with. In fact, game mechanics make them very limited to play with if your sim turns into one. That is one of the things I really need to explore before I finalize the rules for the expansion.

As I said, it will take me a few weeks to make all my notes and get feed back from others playing the Supernatural game. I think this and Seasons are going to have a really fun impact on our challenge and bring levels of challenge that just weren't possible before. If you would like to join the discussion on how the rules are impacted, you can join the Facebook group found here -->

I welcome every angle of discussion because in a multitude of counsel there is wisdom.

I hope this answered your questions :) If not, please ask more!

Mikitta 05:45, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

That's excellent, cheers. Covers all my questions.

Gazza666 03:51, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

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